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[–]jcumb3rValued Collaborator[S,M] [score hidden] stickied comment (7 children)

If anyone has another service that isn't covered here and you'd like to see summary data the same level, please get in touch. If you're willing to volunteer your creds for a few days, we'll expand the coverage to other providers as well.

[–]dfoolioValued Collaborator 86 points87 points  (1 child)

The work this group has been doing behind the scenes is beyond valuable and a huge step up. As it was mentioned, no one is doing this yet.

To think after all these years no one decided to tackle this? With ALL the subreddits out there related to IPTV, not one has decided to tackle this. Why? Well, most of the other subreddits probably stopped when money and personal gain came into the picture.

We are really fortunate a bunch of us got together, at the right time, with the right individuals and the foresight and natural desire to learn and most importantly share this information without seeking personal gain.

To the people reading this and seeing this happen before your very eyes; this is groundbreaking, in our realm, and should be treated as such with respect snd gratitude.

[EDIT] Added to the intro post

[–]YogurtclosetGrand704 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is amazing, thanks immensely!

[–]OddFirefighter3Strong8k 34 points35 points  (1 child)

This is absolutely brilliant data. Thanks a lot for this op and the entire team. This sub is groundbreaking in this iptv industry.

I've been using strong 8k through a reseller and paying 40$ for 3 months yet the actual cost is around 30$ per year. Only discovered This sub today and it's about to save me 130$ a year.

I will post a full review for strong 8k soon but so far it's been a blast. Almost all the channels I've tried out work and there's rarely any buffering on all the streams. I mainly use it to watch European football, f1 and nba and I have only positive reviews so far using about a yr now. And some of the 4k channels are actually hdr so that's another plus.

[–]jcumb3rValued Collaborator[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Welcome to the sub! Thanks for taking the time to reply and offering to give back. Much appreciated!

[–]DrMantisTobbogganValued Collaborator 19 points20 points  (0 children)

This deserves to be the highest rated post in this sub.

[–]i_flashy 12 points13 points  (8 children)

This great data. One thing that would be great is to do same but for the main USA, Canada and UK group channels as that is gonna be what 95% of users are looking at unless that is what this already.

[–]jcumb3rValued Collaborator[S] 6 points7 points  (6 children)

This is the whole world... I could relatively easily break it out that way... I'll think about doing that in a few weeks. Gotta take a breather between these monster data dumps ;)

[–]goocompass 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Monster dumps is all I took from this comment 💩

[–]AgreeableCoffee4038 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Firstly, this is incredible work, unbelievably interesting and useful.

If possible I’d second the request for splitting out by main territory if possible- I’m in the UK, and because the sheer volume of channels these providers carry is so large, it’s hard to know whether the results are skewed by one provider having really good/ poor support in fringe categories.

For example, I’d much rather have a provider who had great quality (say 1080p 50fps) in the UK and US, but everything else was 720p 25fps, rather than a provider who had everything at 1080p 25fps.

Incredible amount of data here though, and so well set out. Cheers again 🙌

[–]jcumb3rValued Collaborator[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

lol. Touche.

[–]Doctor_G_024 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Agreed. Having this type of data for such countries (particularly for USA at least for me), would be awesome. But awesome job either way.

[–]jcumb3rValued Collaborator[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That’s been done for every region in the world now . You can find a link to this in the stickied welcome posts.

[–]Doctor_G_024 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sweet, thank you much. So much information to look though, but it’s all appreciated!

[–]BlueLobster747 10 points11 points  (5 children)

Excellent post, Ty. Posts like this is why I stop in to this sub.

Is bit rate the same as fps? If not, how can I see the bit rate?

[–]jcumb3rValued Collaborator[S] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Thanks. Not the same. Frame rate would be 25/50/60 fps as an example. Bitrates is how much data is sent every second. You’re seeing bitrate in these charts.

[–]BlueLobster747 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Is there a way for the end user to see the bitrate for a channel? I'm using Tivimate but can't find a setting for it

[–]jcumb3rValued Collaborator[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

not that i am aware of. I have seen people watching on a PC posting bitrates (I'm unsure of what player it was). Outside of that you have to do it with scripting.

[–]chottomattene 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is. I use the developer tools app shortcut on the Fire TV stick. It's very useful when trying to see the real quality of a service. 

[–]goocompass 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Bitrate is the quantity of data being sent out for the stream and therefore affects picture quality. FPS is the smoothness of the video in motion

[–]Strict-Finance-5987Valued Collaborator 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Unfortunately catch up is just a joke in all providers. It would be great to see percentage of working channels with catch up.

[–]jcumb3rValued Collaborator[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Yeah, thus far the only way we've found to see that is to try to watch them all... there's probably a way to automate this. If anyone knows one, you're welcome to get in touch.

[–]dangerski 0 points1 point  (1 child)

There is a middle ground of calling get_simple_data_table on each stream that says it has catchup and then see which ones list actual shows with has_archive set. I tried about 10 channels of Trex and all but one channel worked when they listed it as archive available. I may set up a script to run ffprobe on the timeshift stream to verify which ones are fully working and also test catchup retention.

Here is the results of get_simple_data_table for a single ESPN archive stream from a few days ago

id: 91084428

epg_id: 104

title: Live: 2025 4 Nations Face-Off

lang:

start: 2025-02-14 02:00:00

end: 2025-02-14 05:00:00

description: From the Bell Centre in Montreal.

channel_id: ESPN.us

now_playing: 0

has_archive: 1

[–]jcumb3rValued Collaborator[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for replying... I agree that looks like it would work. The way we're checking now is looking at the live streams listing for the presence of "archive_duration", which is not very reliable. I'd appreciate if you keep me posted if you do wider testing to see how reliable your method is...

I'm concerned that you may just have gotten lucky so far because I think all of the IPTV players rely on this same information you're pulling and they frequently show catchup for channels that don't work as well, so I'm just not sure if there is going to be a programatic way to know other than to :

a) identify the channels with catchup

b) identify the EPG entries saying there is catchup

c) trying to play several of them and recording whether each works

That adds a lot of extra processing time... but if you find a way, let me know!

[–]CassangeloEagle4k 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I love this sub, tysm

[–]_BaldShadowStrong8k 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is flat out amazing work! Please pin this as well..

[–]SadDonkey3232 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This is beyond anything I could ever ask for. You guys deserve some beers.

[–]miracle-meatFounding Member 3 points4 points  (0 children)

[–]TheOracle722 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Absolutely brilliant work and the most useful post I've seen regarding iptv. Thanks so much.

One thing that stood out for me was the percentage of EPG per provider and I was pleasantly surprised at the relatively high 30% number for Lion (my main provider) compared to Strong at 10%. Whilst Strong is clearly superior overall and always recommended on here, the pathetic 10% EPG percentage also explains the dozens of IPTV Editor/Boss posts. I can confirm the Lion percentage with my playlist that's been edited down to about 6,000 English speaking channels but is also accurate for the full 17,000 playlist.

Thanks once again for your great work.

[–]HunterSThompson64Valued Collaborator 0 points1 point  (3 children)

One thing that stood out for me was the percentage of EPG per provider and I was pleasantly surprised at the relatively high 30% number for Lion (my main provider) compared to Strong at 10%.

You're not factoring for # of total channels. There's almost a 2x difference in the amount of channels provided between the two, which brings them closer together when normalized. That said, I've heard that Lion is more catered towards the Middle East (I may be wrong,) which could explain a jump in their EPG figures if they're also piggy-backing off English EPG availability coupled with their increased attention for Middle East categories.

[–]TheOracle722 0 points1 point  (2 children)

You overlooked my confirmation that the 30% is valid for the entire playlist of 17,000 channels and not only my 6,000 English channels. 5,100 (30% x 17,000) is simply more than 3,300 (10% x 33,000).

Lion isn't really Arab centric but more international overall with a large European list. However over one-third of the total are English based (US, UK, Australia, NZ, SA, Ireland, Caribbean etc) with the US and UK accounting for the majority of the 30% EPG in my edited playlist.

[–]SecondSin 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What provider would you recommend for Arab / MEA region? Lion, strong, eagle or else.

Appreciated 👍🏻

[–]TheOracle722 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Apart from Lion I've only used Dino but Lion has plenty of Arab content. You need to trial the rest for yourself.

[–]abbaskip 3 points4 points  (0 children)

People often question why it's nearly always Strong 8K, Eagle 4K and Trex suggested in here - I think this data makes that really clear.

[–]Dapsych0 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wow amazing work! Thanks so much

[–]goocompass 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Small error under the 4K channel chart in the interpretation. You stated strong has ~230 4K channels but I believe your eyes mistakenly looked a bit to the right of Strong and at Trex which seems to have ~230 channels. Strong seems to have ~140 4K channels.

Not trying to nitpick just wanna make sure the correct data and explanations are out there. Now beyond that, absolutely brilliant freaking work. This kind of thorough deep dive will really tell us the true quality and available quantity of working content and in this regard in surprised Eagle edged out Strong

[–]jcumb3rValued Collaborator[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thx for pointing that out. I will fix the post.

[–]paddyberger 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for time and the effort of putting this together, most appreciated. This deserves a sticky.

[–]Rlccm 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is an amazing presentation of days, thank you for doing the work

[–]Miserable_Concert219 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Amazing post, thanks for all the work. 😀👍

[–]torbrubTrex 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is awesome! Thank you OP!

[–]Not-Not-Maybe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

THANK YOU so much for the leaders, mods, and valued contributors who compiled and explained all of this incredible data so beautifully and thoughtfully. And thank you for maintaining this sub and answering all of our questions and sharing your knowledge with us. This is the most helpful resource on all of Reddit. I appreciate this place and all of you so much.

[–]belizeans 1 point2 points  (1 child)

In the final analysis using amount of channels, quality and 4K, it looks to me that Strong and Trex are the best. Any disagreement?

[–]TheOracle722 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think Trex edges out Strong due to a far better EPG.

[–]Atticus_JohnsonVeteran 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is 🔥

[–]ZFoldGuyTrex 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very good data! Groundbreaking.

[–]Radioactive_T0y 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a fantastic resource for people to get info and help them make great informed decisions for services. Great job guys!

[–]MeYaj1111 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Top quality post gents, great work

[–]Toetagz101Strong8k 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm so incredibly grateful I found my way to this sub! Excellent work 👏💯

[–]whyhavetoopeninapp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

tysm for all this

[–]Lokki_7 2 points3 points  (1 child)

For the bitrate measures, are outliers removed? I note 8k has far more 1080p channels, if some are low quality, is that what's bringing down the average?

Perhaps a median will assist.

Great work btw!

[–]jcumb3rValued Collaborator[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Good question. The average bitrates are just for each category, so in Strong's case as an example, if they had 300 4k channels, and 10,000,000 SD channels, the latter won't affect the former at all because I'm only considering 4k channels in the average... with that said, your comment made me curious about whether a mean would significantly change the results. it changes things a little showing the median is actually worse than the average, so there seem to be a smaller number of very high bitrate streams and more lower quality 4K streams. Yellow line adds the mean below.

<image>

[–]gnarlybros_lykn 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Is KING geared towards US channels? If so, I def need to look into king as an alternative to strong. Sometimes less is more as I just want US tv.

[–]jcumb3rValued Collaborator[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Not really. You can see what they all focus on by clicking the link for North America in this post.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IPTVGroupBuy/comments/1hhlfgp/detailed_iptv_service_info_comparisons/

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

[removed]

    [–]jcumb3rValued Collaborator[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    I just give you the data. You guys get to do the analysis. What do you think ?

    [–]MeYaj1111 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Ive personally never used any of these but based on your data Strong 8K seems to be best overall but I guess that would depend on slightly on preferences. Could fairly easily apply some weighted scores to each metric and see who comes out on top that way but it would be a personal result to whoever chose the weights

    Come to think of it - someone with even basic programming skills could probably build a service recommendation tool by asking the user a few questions about their preferences and applying weighted scores based on that

    [–]DrMantisTobbogganValued Collaborator 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    That would depend on what you’re looking for. There is no one best. Use the materials people have provided in this subreddit and figure out what’s best for you.

    [–]AutoModerator[M] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

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    [–]Charming_Elk1040 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Great work. Thanks

    [–]IamTedE 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Very impressive, good work by the team!

    [–]IamTedE 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    At the risk of asking for too much, how would the above reviewed providers compare to those more considered mainstream, such as Troypoint's top 10 (knowing he rebrands of some, i.e., Lux is Strong8K).

    [–]JJ_1191 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    They all suck, especially apollo!

    [–]Downtown_Force3610 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Valid information for all . Awesome work!!

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    [–]Moles_Knows 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    This is an unbelievable post thank you so much

    [–]JawnZValued Collaborator 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Would you be interested in sharing the testing methodology?

    [–]Acceptable-Stage6540 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    To me catch up is a great feature and the Trex playlist that I have seems to cover the most of that feature I use EPG boss the paid subscription to take care of all the missing EPG such as locals and even some basic channels that you would think Trex and strong would cover but do not I have five playlist..two Trex two strong 8k and one eagle 4k

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    [–]Fine_Negotiation4254 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Love the work you’ve done. I’ve tested simultaneously this winter, Strong/Trex/Eagle/Mega. For my requirements Trex is the winner. Majority of U.S/Can/UK channels have working catchup. Eagle has catchup but none of them work …..period. Catchup is important to me. Strong has good live tv but VOD just buffers, and I tried 11 different URLs . Trex Live is good and Vod is mostly good except 4K buffers during prime time Eastern….after prime time, it’s good. I’m not a team sports guy so I can’t comment on that.

    [–]jcumb3rValued Collaborator[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Glad it was helpful. Thanks for posting back your experience as well. Trex catchup used to be terrible for NA channels as well. That’s positive to hear it’s improved.

    [–]SecondSin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Thanks

    [–]Estebandido1232 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Has anybody attempted to update this? I heard strong was having issues.

    [–]stephenpowns 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    No issues for me

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [removed]

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      [–]qp9 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Strong 8K's 1080p bitrate is 35% LOWER than most other providers.

      Isn't that a huge deal? Why isn't this getting more discussion?

      <image>

      [–]kkwok -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      Someone pls share platinum pie cred with OP so they can analyze that. It’s a super expensive service and I’m wondering if it’s really good.

      [–]FinanceSufficient131 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      Link for eagle 4k service